US i Iraq

Diskusjon om politiske temaer fra det internasjonale nyhetsbildet.

US i Iraq

Innlegg Skatteflyktning 07 Apr 2010, 23:16

Skatteflyktning
 
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Re: US i Iraq

Innlegg QIQrrr 08 Apr 2010, 05:31

Rapport: Official investigation into civilian casualties resulting from an engagement on 12 July 2007 in the New Baghdad district of Baghdad, Iraq

Kort kommentar: Jeg finner fremstillingen til WikiLeaks svært kritikkverdig. Det er to ting å lære av denne videoen:

    • Journalister bør ikke menge seg med bevæpnede terrorister i krigsområder.
    • Å forsøke seg på redningsoperasjoner i krigsområder med barn gjemt i bilen er idioti.
At videoen vekker følelsesmessige reaksjoner er absolutt ikke uventet. Det som blir vist er for de fleste både fremmed og uforståelig, men min påstand er at dette ligger godt innenfor hva som er akseptabelt. Enkelte har ytret avsky over kommentarene, men disse er i seg selv uvesentlige og gjenspeiler ikke nødvendigvis annet enn det som i øyeblikket må finne utløp - dette er hva man må kunne forvente i en slik situasjon. Moderne krigføring er faktisk svært human i historisk sammenheng. I all hovedsak kan dette tilskrives den teknologiske utviklingen.

All honør til det Amerikanske forsvaret for den svært viktige jobben de utfører.

    PJM, April 7, 2010: After nearly three minutes of telling viewers how to perceive the footage, the grainy black-and-white gun camera footage from a flight of AH-64 Apaches finally comes into view. The helicopters — call-signs Crazy Horse 18 (lead aircraft) and Crazy Horse 19 (wingman) — assume a protective overwatch position, providing aerial support and reconnaissance for elements of the U.S. Second Brigade Combat Team (2nd BCT) on the ground. These ground troops are conducting a sweep through a Shiite slum during the height of the “Surge,” and are attempting to locate and destroy weapons caches belonging to the Mahdi Army. The Mahdi Army is a Shiite paramilitary organization that operates like an organized crime family, and is infamous for both kidnapping fellow Iraqis for ransom and for brutal acts of sectarian violence — including beheadings and assassinations of Iraqi civilians and police - Shame on WikiLeaks: Framing Lawful Engagement as Anti-American Propaganda
Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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QIQrrr
 
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Re: US i Iraq

Innlegg Skatteflyktning 08 Apr 2010, 13:30

QIQrrr,

De innledende kommentarene er selvsagt bare tull, og desverre tror jeg de skader sin egen sak ved sin "partisan" redigering.

Hvis du ser hele klippet vil du merke:

Jeg anser at det foerste angrepet kan forsvares:
1. Der var 2 menn med AK47 og en RPG
2. Journalistene tok sine sjanser og tapte
Man kan sette litt tvil i om de kanskje burde ha proevd aa kun ta ut de vepnede mennene, dog dette var nok ikke mulig fra Helikopteret. Heletsvurdering OK, dog kanskje mulig aa forbedre.

Dog hvor jeg anklager er det andre angrepet:
1. De som kom til unnsettning var ikke bevepnet, og den skadde var ubevepnet og ute av stand til aa gjoere noe som helst.
2. Det var helt klart at de kom for aa hjelpe den/de skadde (kjoere til sykehus/lege)
3. De to barna var IKKE "gjemt i bilen". Du ser dem klart i vinduet paa passagersiden av bilen. (Like klart som du ser de AK47 og RPG)
4. Ingen av disse representerte noen umidelbar fare.

Ogsaa de tredje angrepet (mot en bygning) stiller store sporsmaalstegn:
De sender ivei flere Hellfires selv om der helt tydelig er ubevepnede folk som gaar forbi huset som sannsyligvis vil bli/ble drept. Ingen tegn til aa foelge doktrinen "Minimize collateral damage"

Videre er det klart at Forsvaret har proevd aa skjule fakta after the fact. Dette ser du for eksempel i rapporten du inkulderte (takk), hvor i bildet av bilen med barna i, er barna "Blacked out"
Skatteflyktning
 
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Registrert: 24 Mai 2008, 21:02

Re: US i Iraq

Innlegg QIQrrr 08 Apr 2010, 14:38

Skatteflyktning's "anklager" virker tynnere enn syltynne, og minner egentlig mer om rasjonalisering enn noe annet.

Del to fra PJM:

    PJM, April 8, 2010: After the initial bursts of cannon fire, Crazy Horse 18 and 19 continue to circle the scene, where we now know Reuters cameraman Namir Noor-Eldeen and his driver Saeed Chamagh lie among the dead and wounded terrorists with whom they traveled. Moments later, as the pilots continue to circle, a black van and two men on foot emerge to evacuate the wounded survivor of the attack. Curiously, the van that arrives in the short version of the video to move the wounded man appears as if it could be the same van spotted at the 41-second mark of the long version — sighted pulling up to a mosque. Vehicles such as these were commonly used to ferry militants and munitions, and the van shown in the longer video was captured pulling up to the front of a mosque — a favored location to hide weapons and militants because of policies that forbid U.S. troops from raiding them except under extraordinary circumstances. The pilots make a logical assumption when the van and the extra men (who are curiously never mentioned by the WikiLeakers) pull up and infer that anyone pulling into a hot combat zone with the dust of explosions still hanging in the air may have nefarious purposes … such as helping wounded terrorists avoid capture, and recovering weapons before American ground forces can arrive. After requesting permission to fire — which is granted after a still of the gun camera footage is instantly transmitted to superiors — the van and the men around it are engaged and cut down. The helicopters continue to circle, talking to ground forces closing in on the scene to keep abreast of their exact position to avoid fratricide. Tho bodies scattered over the length of a city block do not move. The twisted receiver of a shattered AK-47 stands out as the Apaches circle, a mute indictment of the intentions of the dead. Only after American ground units roll up on the scene and approach the van do they learn two children are among the wounded. Here in the video, WikiLeaks does something bizarre and contemptuous. They call attention to radio chatter where soldiers request to transfer the children to an American base for treatment — but a decision is made to instead hand the children over to Iraqi police so that the children can be brought to a nearby Iraqi hospital. WikiLeaks opines: “This could mean poorer standards of medical treatment and additional delay.” The unambiguous statements of the U.S. reports on the incident confirm that the children were indeed carried to an American base for treatment after the incident. The boy and girl were evacuated to Forward Operating Base Loyalty, and then to the 28th Combat Hospital for treatment - Shame on WikiLeaks: Framing Lawful Engagement as Anti-American Propaganda (Part Two)
Apropos barn ... Amariyat Al-Fallujah, i går:

    AFP, April 7, 2010: A 10-year-old Iraqi boy allegedly recruited by Al-Qaeda was about to blow himself in a suicide attack on Wednesday just east of Fallujah when police spotted and arrested him, a senior officer said. The incident occurred near a police checkpoint in Amariyat Al-Fallujah, a village 15 kilometres (nine miles) east of the former Sunni rebel bastion of Fallujah and due west of Baghdad, said Captain Anas al-Issawi. "The 10-year-old boy had been used by Al-Qaeda in the past to place bombs," Issawi said, adding that the child disappeared from his family home in Amariyat Al-Fallujah four days ago. "Three men aboard a van drove him to the isolated village of Shitsher (75 kilometres west of Baghdad) to prepare him for the suicide operation," the officer said, quoting the boy's own testimony. Wednesday morning the men helped the boy don an explosives-rigged vest under the traditional dishdasha (long robe) and drove him at dawn to the outskirts of Amariyat Al-Fallujah. They instructed him to blow himself up as soon as the place began milling with people, the officer said, quoting the boy's testimony. "The boy said he followed the instructions and when he saw people gather he approached them (ready to blow himself up) but a policeman saw him and shouted for him to go away. "He panicked and fled but we caught up with him and found that he was wearing an explosives vest," the officer added. The boy, whose identity was not revealed, gave the police information about the van which the Al-Qaeda suspects drove and three of them were arrested, Issawi said. The security situation in Fallujah, once a hotbed of Sunni insurgency, has improved dramatically although militants still carry out sporadic attacks. Since 2006, Sunni tribesmen and former rebels have joined forces with the US military against Al-Qaeda, slashing the jihadists' presence in the western region - Iraq police nab 10-year-old would-be suicide bomber
Under andre omstendigheter kunne denne hjernevaskede gutten blitt skutt og drept.
Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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QIQrrr
 
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Registrert: 20 Mai 2004, 23:33

Re: US i Iraq

Innlegg Skatteflyktning 08 Apr 2010, 15:36

QIQrrr skrev:Skatteflyktning's "anklager" virker tynnere enn syltynne, og minner egentlig mer om rasjonalisering enn noe annet.


Har du sett "klippet"? Din argumentasjon hvirker mer som rasjonalisjering av din stoette av US. Mine observasjoner er basert paa hva man faktisk kan see og hoere.

Akkurat hva er det du mener JEG "rasjonaliserer"? Mitt standpunkt at militaere ikke har lov til aa drepe sivile, selv under krig? :roll:
Skatteflyktning
 
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Re: US i Iraq

Innlegg QIQrrr 07 Jun 2010, 06:29

Saken får etterspill:

    Wired, June 6, 2010: Federal officials have arrested an Army intelligence analyst who boasted of giving classified U.S. combat video and hundreds of thousands of classified State Department records to whistleblower site Wikileaks. SPC Bradley Manning, 22, of Potomac, Maryland, was stationed at Forward Operating Base Hammer, 40 miles east of Baghdad, where he was arrested nearly two weeks ago by the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division. A family member says he’s being held in custody in Kuwait, and has not been formally charged - U.S. Intelligence Analyst Arrested in Wikileaks Video Probe
Ellers ... al Qaeda sliter litt:

    Long War Journal, June 5, 2010: Iraqi and US forces have hit al Qaeda in Iraq hard over the last several months, crippling the terror group's senior leadership and disrupting its communications with al Qaeda's top leaders in Pakistan and Afghanistan, the top US commander in the country said. "Over the last 90 days or so, we've either picked up or killed 34 out of the top 42 al Qaeda leaders in Iraq," General Ray Odierno, the commander of US Forces - Iraq, told reporters during a Pentagon press briefing - Al Qaeda in Iraq is 'broken'
Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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QIQrrr
 
Innlegg: 4439
Registrert: 20 Mai 2004, 23:33


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