Egypt

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Egypt

Innlegg Vegard Martinsen 01 Feb 2011, 20:03

Kunne ikke motstå fristelsen til å gjengi dette bildet fra opptøyene i Egypt.


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Vegard Martinsen
 
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 03 Feb 2011, 06:42

Det kulturelle grunnlaget er kanskje ikke helt optimalt:

    Pew Research Center, December 2, 2010: At least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan say they would favor making each of the following the law in their countries: stoning people who commit adultery, whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery and the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion - Muslim Publics Divided on Hamas and Hezbollah

Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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QIQrrr
 
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg Hans 03 Feb 2011, 06:57

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/ ... _revo.html

A friend of mine in academia forwarded this e-mail to me from an Egyptian student whose good sense he vouches for. The student tells a story very different from what most of you are seeing on television or reading in your papers.


Unless the author gives me permission to reveal his identity, I am not at liberty to disclose it. [Update: The author, Sam Tadros, has given his permission to publish his name.]

- Clarice Feldman

****

My apologies for the length of this article, but I see it as extremely important to tell the whole story as it happened.


The Story of the Egyptian Revolution


One week ago, Egypt was a stable authoritarian regime, prospects of change were minimal and every expert in Washington would have betted on the endurance of its regime. Today, Egypt is in a state of chaos. The regime, even after using its mightiest sword is not able to control the country and the streets of Egypt are in a state of utter lawlessness. As the world stands in awe, confusion, and worry at the unfolding events, perhaps it is important to write the evolving story that is happening in Egypt before any reflections can be made on them.

.....

Hans
 
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg user11 03 Feb 2011, 07:01

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You need my help to make it look like a sale — like a safe, just, moral transaction. I will not help you.
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg Vegard Martinsen 03 Feb 2011, 07:24

Dessverre fører USA en pragmatisk, kortsiktig politikk, noe som bla. innebærer at de støtter sekulære dikatorer mot både kommunister og islamister.

Ja, de har støttet Mubarak, og verre, de støtter regimet i Saudi-Arabia. Og Ja, de støttet Saddam i Irak frem til Bush jr, men dette var for å ha en motvekt til Khomeinys Iran.

Den filosofien som dominerer i USA intellektuelle miljøer er altså pragmatisme, og den sier at det ikke finnes almengyldige sanneher, at prinsipper ikke finnes, og at det eneste man kan og må gjøre er å finne kortsiktige løsninger som kan virke her og nå. USAs politikk er derfor preget av kortsiktighet og prinsippløshet.

Litt mer om pragmatismen kan man finne her: http://filosofi.no/filosofien-i-det-tyv ... gmatismen/, hvor det bla. står:

Pragmatikerne avviste derfor alle muligheter for evige, allmenngyldige sannheter, og de avviste alle fundamentale prinsipper og absolutter. De hevdet at man skal leve sitt liv på vanlig måte, og løse problemer ved å prøve seg frem etterhvert som de dukker opp. Det finnes ingen prinsipper som kan danne basis for løsninger: hva som virket igår virker kanskje ikke idag. Dewey gikk på dette område så langt som det var mulig å gå. Han påstod at siden logikkens lover har fungert så godt og i så lang tid, er det på tide at de skiftes ut. (Dewey: Logic, Holt & Co., New York 1938, s.82,90,94.) Logikkens lover er for pragmatikerne en konvensjon laget på et vilkårlig grunnlag, og derfor må de kunne forkastes eller forandres når det måtte passe.


Dette er selvsagt noe helt annet enn det DLF baserer seg på.
Vegard Martinsen
 
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg dradeel 03 Feb 2011, 16:14

Veldig sant. Pragmatismen er egentlig ledende innenfor politikken i de fleste vestlige land, men i USA har det dessverre fått utløp for dette gjennom et ekstremt komplekst og uoversiktelig globalt geopolitisk sammensurium. De har til og med fått til å gjøre det legitimt i USA å avvise de som argumenterer for ikke-intervensjon og en prinsippfast og fornuftig forsvarspolitikk som simple isolasjonister. Politikere i USA fikk i grunn altfor stor selvtillit etter hvordan de synes de stod opp i mot kommunismen under den kalde krigen - at det var en suksess i opprettholdelsen av et amerikansk hegemoni. Kanskje på kort sikt, men det hele har komt tilbake og sparket dem i rumpen som islamistisk anti-amerikanisme.

Det er trist å si at det "heldigvis" vil bli satt en stopper for USAs rolle som selvoppnevnt verdenspoliti når de endelig skakkjører sitt eget lands økonomi. Det vil forhåpentligvis over tid snu trenden av den anti-vestlige hetsen, og kan igjen kanskje åpne muligheten for å spre ordentlig fred og frihet til de deler av verden som har lidd under Amerikas innblandingspolitikk. Slik det er nå gir man bare folk enda flere grunner til å gå i ekstreme retninger.
"In Keynesian America, debt has you!"
dradeel
 
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 03 Feb 2011, 19:10

Det som er skrevet ovenfor minner til forveksling om noe som er klippet ut av en Ron Paul folder. Jeg kan langt på vei være enig i at det geopolitiske bildet er komplekst og sammenvevd, men hvordan dette kan tilskrives amerikansk mangel på "fornuftig forsvarspolitikk" må nesten utdypes nærmere. Hva er fornuftig forsvarspolitikk? Hvilke politikere med "altfor stor selvtillit" siktes det til og hva ligger i uttalelsen som henviser til den kalde krigen? Videre kan det være interessant å få en nærmere forklaring på hvordan "det hele har komt tilbake og sparket dem i rumpen som islamistisk anti-amerikanisme." Løse koblinger mellom "selvoppnevnt verdenspoliti" og "den anti-vestlige hetsen" er noe vi vanligvis finner igjen på venstresiden som utvilsomt deler den svært fantasifulle drømmen om at den amerikanske forsvarsevnen vil falle i grus "når de endelig skakkjører sitt eget lands økonomi." Hvordan lyder forøvrig den magiske oppskriften på å "spre ordentlig fred og frihet" og kan de som "har lidd under Amerikas innblandingspolitikk" identifiseres? Jeg gjør for ordens skyld oppmerksom på at min innledende assosiasjon absolutt ikke er ensbetydende med forutinntatthet.

Et svar bør kanskje finne veien til en egen tråd om amerikansk forsvarspolitikk. Dra gjerne med tilhørende ordveksling.
Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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QIQrrr
 
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Egypt: Liberty Is More Than Overthrowing a Tyrant

Innlegg Panther 03 Feb 2011, 21:12

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/science/healthcare/6254-egypty-liberty-is-more-than-overthrowing-a-tyrant.html

2 February 2011 Michael Hurd

It's sad to see a nation of people assert itself, throwing off the shackles of Big Government with probably no idea with what to replace it. They can expect no guidance or perspective whatsoever from current United States officials.

Many reports coming out of Egypt suggest the battle is not one for Islamic fundamentalist rule -- so often the case in the Middle East -- but rather one in favor of "liberty" and freedom from the rule of a 30-year presidency in which the leader refuses to ever step down.

If the reports are valid, then this is a rare opportunity for the American government to support the development of a democratic republic in that part of the world. Unlike Iraq, where components of such a republic were thrust upon the people through military action, in Egypt such a government could develop of, by and for the people.

Such leadership by the United States is unlikely, however. For decades now, the United States has been adrift from its own concepts of individual rights and the infrastructure of a democratic republic to support them. Big Government welfare programs and a regulatory state in which business operates only at the consent of government has replaced freedom and capitalism in the USA. Americans have, by and large, lost sight of what gives rise to liberty. So how can they possibly lead or support the Egyptians in their hour of crisis?

Maybe the Egyptians will teach Americans on this issue. To do so, there must be widespread agreement and coherent understanding of what "liberty" actually means. Liberty means more than freedom from a tyrant, or a dysfunctional five-term President. Americans at the time of the Revolutionary War in 1776 understood this, and were properly led by men like Thomas Jefferson. Liberty means the presence of individual rights.
Ken-G. Johansen.
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 03 Feb 2011, 21:41

Fatah støtter Mubarak. De mener å vite at ElBaradei er CIA-agent og at han i tillegg er ansvarlig for Irak-krigen:

    Jerusalem Post, February 2, 2011: Dozens of Fatah supporters demonstrated in Ramallah on Wednesday in support of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. The demonstration – the first of its kind in the West Bank since the beginning of the uprising in Egypt – coincided with the attack launched by Mubarak’s supporters against anti-government protesters in Cairo. Sources in Ramallah said the demonstration had been initiated by the PA leadership, which has banned anti-Mubarak protests in the West Bank. The demonstrators shouted slogans condemning Egyptian opposition figure Mohamed ElBaradei as a “CIA agent” and warned against foreign intervention in Egypt’s internal affairs - PA launches pro-Mubarak demonstration in Ramallah

Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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QIQrrr
 
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 05 Feb 2011, 12:06

"Demonstrasjonene i arabiske land er også del av et verdensomspennende opprør mot kvinneundertrykking," hevder Karianne Bjellås Gilje i en kommentar i Dagbladet hvor hun viser til "de som nå demonstrerer sammen med sine landsmenn, mot patriarkalske, kvinneundertrykkende regimer" ... blant annet med henvisning til Egypt, men:

    Asia Times Online, February 2, 2011: Nine out of ten Egyptian women suffer genital mutilation. US President Barack Obama said Jan. 29, "The right to peaceful assembly and association, the right to free speech, and the ability to determine their own destiny ... are human rights. And the United States will stand up for them everywhere." Does Obama think that genital mutilation is a human rights violation? To expect Egypt to leap from the intimate violence of traditional society to the full rights of a modern democracy seems whimsical. In fact, the vast majority of Egyptians has practiced civil disobedience against the Mubarak regime for years. The Mubarak government announced a "complete" ban on genital mutilation in 2007, the second time it has done so - without success, for the Egyptian population ignored the enlightened pronouncements of its government. Do Western liberals cheer at this quiet revolt against Mubarak's authority? - Food and failed Arab states
Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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QIQrrr
 
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Self-Determination in Egypt, Obama Style

Innlegg Panther 05 Feb 2011, 19:13

http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/world/middle-east/6258-self-determination-in-egypt-obama-style.html

5 February 2011 Michael Hurd

Barack Obama says that it's up to the Egyptian people to decide what form of government they want. What if the Egyptian people wanted a Hitler? Or apartheid, the racist government that once controlled South Africa? Is something right and moral just because a majority want it?


But Obama clearly doesn't mean it himself. While speaking out of one side of his mouth, and saying it's up to the Egyptian people, he has been openly friendly to the idea of the Muslim Brotherhood taking over Egypt. Egypt is one of America's few allies in the oil-rich part of the world upon which Western civilization as we know it depends. It’s fine to get rid of Mubarak in favor of an advocate of individual rights, but that assumes the people in Egypt want or even know what individual rights are. I see no evidence, from what I’ve been reading, that this is the case. For radical, violent Islamic fanatics seeking another country to take over, Egypt is ripe for the picking – and America’s current President apparently has no problem with this fact.

Columnist and former Clinton advisor Dick Morris writes, "The Muslim Brotherhood is allied closely with [the terrorist group] Hamas. To the extent that it masquerades as a peaceful body, it's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Any coalition with the Brotherhood is as likely to remain secular as Hitler's early coalition with von Hindenberg in Germany was likely to stay non-Nazi."


Where are America's liberals? They claim to hate religious fundamentalism. The Muslim Brotherhood, whom Obama reportedly supports, is way, way more religiously fundamentalist than any member of the Christian right in the United States. Why is it intolerable for American Christians to oppose gay marriage, while it's tolerable for Muslims in the Middle East to force women to live as second-class citizens, to stone people to death for homosexuality or any sex outside of marriage, and obliterate any remote distinction between church and state? There can only be one of two answers. Either America's liberals -- Obama's core constituency -- don't care; or they actually support religious fundamentalists so long as they're opposed to America.

Self-hatred of this magnitude, of liberals toward their own country and way of life, is too hideous to contemplate.

Conspiracy theorists claim that Obama is a secret destroyer who was “put” into office to end America's freedom and way of life. Such theories are nonsense. The truth is much worse than that.

Obama's policies, now coming to further fruition in the Egyptian crisis, are the result of what Americans knowingly and willingly voted into office, and very well may vote into office a second time next year. Obama is not our destroyer. Americans -- the majority of them, at least – are their own destroyer. Obama’s foreign policy consists of national suicide, not homicide.
Ken-G. Johansen.
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 05 Feb 2011, 22:48

Det er ikke usannsynlig at disse urokråkene lider av sterk hjemlengsel:

    The Long War Journal, February 5, 2011: Ayman al Zawahiri's top deputy, Thirwat Salah Shehata, has released a statement praising the Egyptian people and calling for President Hosni Mubarak's ouster. Shehata is a longtime member of Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ), a core part of al Qaeda, and has served Zawahiri since the 1980s. In the statement, which was released on jihadist message boards known to carry al Qaeda propaganda, Shehata calls on the Egyptian people to "remain steadfast" and refuse to settle for economic concessions from Mubarak's regime. "Indeed, the Pharaoh and his rotten party must depart," Shehata says. There is no evidence that the EIJ has played any role in Egypt's turmoil. In fact, Shehata laments his organization's inability to be "on the front lines sharing this honor." The EIJ was "forced to leave the country after the regime's war against us," Shehata says, "and we ended up participating with the mujahedin on other fronts." According to Asharq Al-Awsat, a Saudi publication, an anonymous source close to the EIJ said that Shehata's "statement was issued from Tehran where Shehata is currently residing." Shehata and other top EIJ operatives received shelter in Iran after the Sept. 11 attacks - Ayman al Zawahiri's deputy releases statement in support of Egyptian opposition

Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 07 Feb 2011, 21:59

The Daily Mirror, February 7, 2011: Banned hardline group the Muslim Brotherhood was yesterday in talks with crisis-torn Egypt’s government – and is ready to impose strict Islamic laws. Britain and the US already fears the Islamist political movement is poised to seize power after President Mubarak said he would end his 30-year rule by not seeking re-election in September. And in an exclusive interview with the Daily Mirror, the Muslim Brotherhood’s deputy said Sharia – which allows oppression of women and stoning of adulterers – could be introduced “if it is the will of the people” Egypt revolution: Banned Muslim Brotherhood ready to impose Sharia law

Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 08 Feb 2011, 07:24

Ma'an, February 7, 2011: Egyptian security came under attack Monday by a group identified by witnesses as the radical Islamist group Takfir Wal-Hijra, injuring an officer and a civilian. Security officials told Ma'an that the attack was launched on forces operating in the Ahrash neighborhood of Rafah city, with several Rocket-propelled Grenades fired in what was said by witnesses to be a two-hour battle. The Rmeilat tribe, part of the indigenous Bedouin population, were said to have joined forces with the security forces to push back the group, an offshoot of Egypt's popular Muslim Brotherhood with alleged ties to Al-Qaeda - Islamist group clashes with Egyptian forces at Gaza border

Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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Re: Egypt

Innlegg QIQrrr 18 Feb 2011, 11:55

The Wall Street Journal, February 18, 2011: CAIRO—Egypt's youth activists and opposition leaders are beginning to jockey for position, jousting over their revolutionary credentials and firing off accusations of going soft on the military, as the camaraderie that united them at the height of the uprising is replaced by rough-and-tumble politics. [...] "It's all changing so fast, movements and parties are being born and disappearing and dividing and uniting and changing faster than anyone can keep track of it all," said Sally Sami, an activist with the Cairo Institute for Human Rights. The military is proving to be a wedge issue - Splits Emerge Among Egypt's Young Activists
Børge Svanstrøm Amundsen

"Atlas was permitted the opinion that he was at liberty, if he wished, to drop the Earth and creep away; but this opinion was all that he was permitted" - Franz Kafka
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