Hong Kong og Taiwan

Diskusjon om politiske temaer fra det internasjonale nyhetsbildet.

Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 25 Jun 2014, 11:00

Ting skjer i Hong Kong og Taiwan, og mye av det som skjer er ikke bra. Kina legger mer og mer press på disse to områdene for å bli mer lik fastlandskina. Jeg tenkte det ville være en gode ide å starte en tråd da Hong Kong har i lang tid hatt en god økonomisk politikk og system og det ville være interesant for folk her å følge utviklingen. Taiwan er mindre kjent, men har mye større grad av økonomisk og politisk frihet enn Kina.

Veldig kort om Hong Kong i den siste tiden:
etter at Kina overtok Hong Kong ble det lovet at det skulle holdes frie valg i 2017, dette har nå Beijing gått bort i fra til stor misnøye blant folk i Hong Kong. Det planlegges en stor demonstrasjon mot Kina kallt "Occupy Central". Og i disse dager foregår det en uoffisiel demokratisk avstemming på nett som har som formål å vise at det er dette Hong Kong ønsker. Kina har svart med en såkallt "White Paper" som i bunn og grunn sier at Hong Kong ikke er viktig, demokratiske valg fører til ødeleggelse og at rettsystemet i Hong Kong bør spørre seg "Hva ville Mao Zedong ha gjort" og et massivt dataangrept på hele Hong Kong for å blokkere avstemingen. Ellers har det i år vært en rekke angrep på Kina kritiske journalister og redaktører og det er sterkte rykter om at Beijing er involvert, dog er det ingen konkrete beviser.

Veldig kort om Taiwan i den siste tiden:
Relasjonen mellom Taiwan og Kina er veldig komplisert og fortsatt uklar, Taiwan kalles også Republic of Kina og er en fortsettelse etter den nasjonalistiske KMT regjeringen som styrte Kina 1911-1949, etter at de tapte borgerkrigen flyktet de til Taiwan og har vært en tårn i siden på kommunistene i Kina. Kina ønsker å lempe Taiwan inn under seg, mens folk på Taiwan er delte, sist jeg sjekket meningsmålinger var det et mindretall som var for union med Kina. En ny frihandelsavtale mellom Kina og Taiwan ble introdusert tidligere i år til massive studentprotester i Taipei, den såkallte Solsikke-bevegelsen, og presidenten har høstet massiv kritikk for å ha solgt Taiwan til Kina. Etter utviklingen i Hong Kong er folk mer og mer skeptiske til Kina.

Noen nyhetsartikler:

Hong Kong has nothing to learn from China, but China has much to learn from Hong Kong

Hong Kong has nothing to learn from Beijing. An economy consistently rated the world’s freest has zero to gain from the self-censorship, patriotic education and opacity China increasingly wants to impose across the Pearl River. If China continues to muddle financial transparency, call into question the independence of Hong Kong’s courts and force expatriate economists to censor themselves, Singapore wins – not Hong Kong’s people. China must incorporate Hong Kong’s freewheeling ethos, not stamp it out.

http://chinadailymail.com/2014/06/24/ho ... hong-kong/

With Protests Looming, Beijing Promotes Its Vision for Hong Kong

Over the weekend, Zhou Nan, former director of the official Chinese media outlet Xinhua in Hong Kong, told Hong Kong media that the Occupy Central movement is “illegal” and “violates Hong Kong’s rule of law.” He said that the movement was a front for “anti-China forces” to try to seize control of Hong Kong. If riots or other chaos results from Occupy Central, Zhou predicted that PLA forces might intervene to take control of the situation. Speaking from the viewpoint of Beijing, Zhou said, “We could not allow Hong Kong to turn into a base to subvert China’s socialist regime under the guise of democracy.”

http://thediplomat.com/2014/06/with-pro ... hong-kong/

Voices of Opposition in Hong Kong, Taiwan Undercut Beijing's Hopes

A quarter of a century after the crackdown on student protesters in Beijing's Tiananmen Square, two of the most impassioned protests marking its anniversary are taking place in Hong Kong and Taiwan, undercutting the hopes of China's leaders that the two places would draw closer to the country.

"Economically, Taiwan and Hong Kong are developing closer ties with China, but in the realm of civil society, Taiwan and Hong Kong are moving away," said Johnny Lau, who covered Tiananmen Square for a pro-Beijing newspaper and is now a political commentator in Hong Kong.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/oppositi ... 1401685936

For dem som liker grøssere så kan de finne hele White Paperen her: http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... ng-special
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Vegard Martinsen 26 Jun 2014, 11:21

Vegard Martinsen
Innlegg: 7868
Registrert: 07 Sep 2003, 12:07

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 28 Jun 2014, 06:57

Hong Kong lawyers march to defend judiciary in wake of Beijing's white paper

Fra South China Morning Post*: http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/arti ... hite-paper

A record number of lawyers took to the streets yesterday to protest against Beijing's white paper that they say jeopardises judicial independence, a value that sets Hong Kong apart from the rest of the country.

One of the city's highest-level judges offered support for the 1,800 participants, who wore black and marched in silence in the profession's third public display of support for the judiciary since the handover in 1997.

Quotes from leading lawyers participating in the silent march

"If judges have to be standing with the government and form part of the government [as the white paper suggests], this would be totally contrary to the rule of law" - Audrey Eu Yuet-mee, a former president of the Bar Association

"We want to send a very clear message to the Central People’s Government: Don’t interfere, don’t damage the rule of law; it is too important for Hong Kong"
- Dennis Kwok Wing-hang, legislator for the legal sector

"Lawyers are marching because we see the white paper as an attempt to rewrite the Basic Law by giving our judges political missions - which are not acceptable at all" - Alan Leong Kah-kit, senior counsel and Civic Party chairman

"I came out because no person can keep himself untroubled during chaotic times" - Lawrence Lok, senior counsel

*SCMP er ansett for å være en pro-Beijing avis.
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 30 Jun 2014, 10:18

Resultatene av det uoffisille valget i Hong Kong er klare. Det var ca.25% valgdeltakelse som er ganske bra med tanke på at dette var komplett uoffisielt og at Beijing satte i gang tiltak for å sabotere dette valget

Results released after nearly 800,000 vote in HK 'referendum'

Polls closed last night on Hong Kong's unofficial "Civil Referendum" on universal suffrage. Nearly 800,000 Hongkongers cast their ballot in the poll organized by Occupy Central and the Public Opinion Programme at the University of Hong Kong, equivalent to almost a quarter of the territory's 3.51 million registered voters—far more than anticipated by either organizers or Beijing.
In the poll, voters were presented with three options for public nomination of candidates in the upcoming 2017 chief executive election. The winning method was the Alliance for True Democracy's proposal that candidates with the endorsement of 1% of registered voters be able to appear on the ballot, and that conditions such as "love China, love Hong Kong" and "no confrontations with the central government" are unacceptable. Voters overwhelmingly (88%) supported a veto by Legislative Council of any electoral process that does not meet international standards of a free and fair election.
The turnout is doubly impressive considering the "national scale" cyber attacks and phishing scams originating form mainland China, as well as repeated denunciations from state-run media. In the mainland internet censors attempted to delete all mention of the poll and seized shipments of Chinese-made ballot boxes and voting booths bound for Hong Kong, whilst some of the SAR's physical polling stations saw pro-Beijing ruffians attempt to scare away would-be voters.

http://shanghaiist.com/2014/06/30/resul ... _80000.php

I morgen er det planlagt store anti-Beijing protester i Hong Kong, og det er anslått at en halv million mennsker vil møte opp.

Hong Kong prepares for mass protest against Beijing control
Hong Kong, a former British colony, has been governed under a "one country, two systems" framework since it was returned to mainland control on 1 July 1997. The principle grants Hong Kong's seven million people civil liberties that do not exist on the mainland – rights to free speech and assembly, a free press and an independent judiciary. Yet many Hong Kong people feel that Beijing's influence over the region has grown in recent years, putting these freedoms at risk.

Johnson Yeung, convenor of the Civil Human Rights Front, the group organising the protest, said that he expected half a million people to march on Tuesday – at least as many as in 2003, when the size of the turnout caused Beijing to repeal a controversial proposal for "anti-subversion" legislation.

"My generation, we're pretty pessimistic about our future," said Yeung, a 22-year-old recent graduate. "And we'd like to fight for an alternative." Public sentiment was at its lowest point since 2003, he said.

Over the past year, Hong Kong residents have worried that the region's once free-wheeling press is self-censoring to appease pro-Beijing owners. They fear that communist authorities are meddling in their schools and courts, and that mainland investors have driven up property prices, exacerbating an already enormous wealth gap.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... ng-control

Og i følge Beijing hvem er det som står bak "uroen" i Hong Kong? Jo, det er nemlig CIA og Hollywood. Sikkert ingenting med massive mennskeretighetsbrudd, sensur, ekpropasjon av eiendom, korrupsjon osv osv å gjøre... :roll:

Chinese Media: Beware American 'Cultural Products'
A June 25 opinion piece in pro-Communist Party newspaper Global Times titled "Who Is Truly the Black Hand Behind Hong Kong Independence?" insists that U.S. skullduggery lies behind a non-binding Hong Kong referendum on universal suffrage. The vote, which allows participation at on-the-ground stations or online, is organized by Occupy Central with Love and Peace, an advocacy group started in early 2013. Organizers say over 700,000 have participated since ballots opened June 20, with voting slated to continue until June 29. The results have angered Beijing, which did not approve the vote and has asserted suzerainty over the officially independent former British colony in increasingly strident terms. Global Times earlier called the referendum "illegal" and insisted in a June 23 editorial that if 1.3 billion Chinese could weigh in, the result would be different. But Chinese people can't vote, and the article was widely panned online. The latest piece takes a different tack, calling the referendum an effort to "create trouble for China" in order to render the country "unable to engage in the great power game" with its cross-Pacific rival.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... Newsletter
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 30 Jun 2014, 10:32

Taiwan har fulgt nøye med på Hong Kong i den siste tiden, og både Beijing, Taipei og Hong Kong vet at hvis Beijing ikke håndterer Hong Kong på en god og rettferdig måte vil det kunne ødelegge hele relasjonen mellom Beijing og Taiwan. Dette ville føre til et enromt prestisjenederlang for Beijing, og i Kineisk kultur er prestisje (=ansikt) enromt viktig.

For første gang i historien ble en Kinesisk minister sendt til Taiwan, åpenbart i kjølvannet av Hong Kong, og åpenbart for å prøve å roe ned forholdet mellom Taiwan og Kina. Instruksene for møtet var å unngå sensitive politiske temaer (i.e valget i Hong Kong, frihandelsavtalen med Kina etc) men selv dette førte til massive og voldelige protester på Taiwan og deler av besøket ble avlyst.

China official cancels events in Taiwan amid violent protests
Throughout his four-day tour of the island, Zhang was greeted by protesters, including at the high-speed train station in the pro-independence southern port of Kaohsiung on Friday. There hundreds of demonstrators gathered, some waving placards reading "Communist Zhang Zhijun, get the hell back to China".

Protesters in the city became violent and at one point attempted to pour white paint on Zhang, but missed him and instead splashed security staff. Some protesters were bloodied after scuffles with police.


The trip was seen as part of China's charm offensive in Taiwan, where many remain suspicious about a pending trade pact and autocratic China's political designs for the democratically governed island.

Speaking to state media after arriving back in Beijing on Saturday, Zhang glossed over the protests and hailed the trip a success.

"This visit received an enthusiastic welcome from all circles and peoples in Taiwan. Despite differing voices, the popular will is extremely clear," the official Xinhua news agency cited Zhang as saying.

"Everyone universally believes that peaceful development of cross-strait relations is the correct path and brings real benefits to people on both sides. Everyone believes we should continue down this path," he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/ ... 8X20140630
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Rounin 30 Jun 2014, 11:56

Dette er veldig trist. En fredelig gjenforening av Kina hadde åpenbart vært et av de bedre utfallene av konfliktene som har preget Kina i nyere tid. Dersom konflikten i Hong Kong tilspisser seg, og de igjen drar med seg Taiwan, kan vi formodentlig få en ny periode med konflikt. Alle parter har heldigvis utvist stor tålmodighet i denne saken hittil, så vi får bare håpe den holder.
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Innlegg: 747
Registrert: 06 Jun 2007, 17:17

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 03 Jul 2014, 12:53

Rounin skrev:Dette er veldig trist. En fredelig gjenforening av Kina hadde åpenbart vært et av de bedre utfallene av konfliktene som har preget Kina i nyere tid. Dersom konflikten i Hong Kong tilspisser seg, og de igjen drar med seg Taiwan, kan vi formodentlig få en ny periode med konflikt. Alle parter har heldigvis utvist stor tålmodighet i denne saken hittil, så vi får bare håpe den holder.

En komplett gjenforening må i såfall ta hensyn til de mennskerettene som allerede er på plass i Taiwan og Hong Kong. Problemet med det er at dagens styresmakter i Beijing er ikke interesert i å øke mennskerettigheter i Kina. Med dagens regjering så vil en komplett gjenforening føre til værre kår i Taiwan. Hong Kong som har vært styrt under "en nasjon, to systemer" prinsippet føler jo selv presset bli større og større fra Kina.

Kommunistparitet i Kina har null prinsipper og null veridier utenom om å beholde makten i Kina for enhver pris (selv ikke målet om å berike seg selv er like framtredene på toppnivå som det en gang var). Det må en enorm reform og endring til i Kina før en eventuel gjenforening av "stor-Kina" fører til en bedre situasjon for folk i Taiwan og Hong Kong. Per i dag ser jeg som sagt null vilje til å liberaisere samfunnet.
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 03 Jul 2014, 13:01

Demonstrasjonene i Hong Kong har blitt gjennomført. Shanghaiist som er en blogg og ikke en tradisjonell nyhetskilde har en god oppsumering av demonstrasjonen:

http://shanghaiist.com/2014/07/02/democ ... g-kong.php

An estimated 510,000 people gathered in Hong Kong's Victoria Park to support democracy on yesterday's anniversary of the former British colony's handover to Chinese sovereignty, undeterred by the sweltering heat, humidity and sporadic rainfall. In what's been called a "repeat of the '03 miracle", the annual demonstration witnessed it's largest turnout since 2003, when the SAR government attempted to push few the anti-sedition Article 23.

This year's turnout was bolstered by the State Council's controversial new white paper on "one country, two systems" that reminded Hongkongers that in spite of promises of universal suffrage Beijing had the final word on who could rule Hong Kong and how. The white paper also sparked the largest demonstration of legal professionals even seen locally, as nearly two thousand lawyers staged a silent protest to voice their concern over the white paper's insistence that even judges must be obsequious to the government.

Satsmedia i Kina var raskt ute med å fordømme protestene i Hong Kong. South China Morning Post har en god oppsumering av to lederartikler hos Kinas to største aviser

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/ ... s?page=all

'Patriots must run Hong Kong': State newspapers hit back at July 1 demonstrators
People's Daily and Global Times speak out following the biggest July 1 protests in the city in a decade

The central government should make no concessions to pro-democracy demonstrators – and Hong Kong must be run by “patriots”, the Communist Party’s mouthpiece People’s Daily and nationalist tabloid Global Times warned in two strongly-worded editorials on Wednesday.

The state run newspapers hit back following the biggest July 1 protests in the city in a decade.

Patriotism is a natural emotion and putting patriots in charge of the city should be “a matter of course”, the People’s Daily said in a front-page editorial.

The paper added the late paramount leader Deng Xiaoping defined a “patriot” as those "who loyally support China’s exercise of sovereignty over Hong Kong, and those who do not impair Hong Kong’s prosperity and stability”.

It went on: “The central government’s reiteration that Hong Kong must be governed by the Hong Kong people with patriots as the mainstay is not an intervention [in] Hong Kong’s autonomy. It is a move to clarify Hong Kong [officials'] rights and obligations written in the Basic Law.
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 11 Aug 2014, 01:15

Ok, tråden har ligget brakk lengere enn jeg planla. Hadde en travel måned, inkludert en forettningsreise til nettopp Hong Kong som jeg gjerne kan skrive kort om. I mellomtiden fant jeg denen artikkelen, igjen om sensur fra fastlandet:

‘White Terror’ Behind Hong Kong Web Closure?
Mainland pressure felt but rarely seen by local media

Somebody or something scared the shit out of Tony Tsoi Tung-ho. On July 20, he suddenly shut down House News, the most popular stand-alone Chinese-language website in Hong Kong.

The two-year-old website, modeled on the phenomenally popular US website Huffington Post and featuring an amalgam of columnists, journalists and observers who were often critical of China, had 300,000 unique viewers per day and was growing fast. It had garnered Hong Kong’s big luxury car dealers BMW, Mercedes and Audi as advertisers. It was reportedly on the edge of a tie-up with the Wall Street Journal.

It stopped dead so suddenly that stunned staffers weren’t even informed of its demise, coming to work to find the doors locked. Tsoi himself has been unreachable and, friends say, may have moved out of his home into a serviced apartment so he can’t be found.

When he shut down House News, however, he left this astonishing written statement on the screen where the publication had been:

I fear. The current atmosphere of political struggle is extremely unsettling. A number of the democratic camp members are being stalked, smeared, and having some old stories dug out. A wave of white terror envelops this society, and I feel it. And, as a businessman who often travels up to the mainland, I have to admit every time I cross the border I would get jittery. Am I just being paranoid? That feeling is inexplicable to outsiders. But what unsettles me most is my family also feels this pressure, and they worry about me all the time ... That breaks my heart."

Igjen hele artikkelen kan anbefalles: http://www.asiasentinel.com/politics/wh ... b-closure/
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

Re: Hong Kong og Taiwan

Innlegg Jan A. Skarstein 16 Aug 2014, 15:51

Et absurd angrep på redaktørene i Apple Daily, en liberal og Beijing kritisk avis i Hong Kong. Noen, ukjent hvem, kjøpte en helsides annonse i en konkurrerende avis og la ut en falsk nekrolog "til minne" om redaktøren i Apple Daily.

A Hong Kong media tycoon and founder of the liberal Apple Daily newspaper, Jimmy Lai, released a barbed video response to a fake obituary that was published by a rival newspaper.
The obituary of Lai, an outspoken critic of Beijing, ran on a full page of the rival Oriental Daily newspaper Thursday in oversized Chinese characters.
It changed the tycoon's name, replacing one character with another that sounds identical, but the biographical details were otherwise identical to Lai's.
It stated that Lai, 65, had died on August 7 of AIDS and cancer, adding that there would be no funeral because his family members were also suffering from illnesses.
It also offered condolences to the employees of "Two Media" -- Apple Daily's parent company uses Chinese characters whose literal translation is "One Media".
"They want me to die? Is it really that easy?" Lai said in response to the obit in a self-made mobile phone video. "Sorry to disappoint you."
It remains unclear who took out the full page ad for the fake obituary.
Oriental Daily declined to comment when contacted by AFP, and did not respond to further queries.
Lai's office did not immediately respond to queries.
Lai and his Apple Daily newspaper, known for its critical stance on Beijing and support for the city's pro-democracy movement, is no stranger to attacks.
Apple Daily website suffered a blackout for several hours in June, in what it described as a large-scale attack launched by sophisticated hackers.
An executive of Apple Daily alleged in a Wall Street Journal interview in June that HSBC and Standard Chartered had pulled advertising from the paper in late 2013 after a request from Beijing.
Neither bank has confirmed the report.
Concerns over media freedom have also grown this year following several attacks on journalists. The former editor of a respected liberal newspaper, Kevin Lau, was savagely stabbed in broad daylight in February.
Political discontent in Hong Kong is at its highest level in years as fears mount that the freedoms enjoyed in the southern Chinese city are being eroded.
Beijing has insisted that it will vet candidates before a vote in 2017 for the city's next leader, raising concerns that they will only allow pro-Beijing candidates to run.
Anger in the city has also grown following a white paper published by China in June that reaffirms its control over Hong Kong.
The city was handed back to China by Britain on July 1, 1997 under a "one country, two systems" agreement, which allows residents civil liberties not seen on the mainland, including free speech and the right to protest.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-med ... 06453.html
Jan A. Skarstein
Innlegg: 79
Registrert: 13 Mai 2004, 16:16
Bosted: Shanghai

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