Rød og sort fascisme

Diskusjon om andre ideologier, slik som sosialdemokrati, sosialisme og konservatisme.

Rød og sort fascisme

Innlegg Erik 03 Sep 2010, 10:29

Dette har objektivister/liberalister alltid visst:

"Det er så store likheter mellom kommunisme og nazisme at det ikke er lett å se forskjell. Det er en oppfatning som hisser opp russiske ledere, men nå erklærer lederen av de russiske statsarkivene seg enig."

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/utenriks/--Sta ... 48961.html
Erik
 
Innlegg: 301
Registrert: 02 Mai 2004, 15:38
Bosted: Bergen

Re: Rød og sort fascisme

Innlegg Erik 07 Sep 2010, 13:49

Erik
 
Innlegg: 301
Registrert: 02 Mai 2004, 15:38
Bosted: Bergen

Re: Rød og sort fascisme

Innlegg Ultima_Thule 08 Des 2013, 12:08

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/hitler-and-the-socialist-dream-1186455.html
His private conversations, however, though they do not overturn his reputation as an anti-Communist, qualify it heavily. Hermann Rauschning, for example, a Danzig Nazi who knew Hitler before and after his accession to power in 1933, tells how in private Hitler acknowledged his profound debt to the Marxian tradition. "I have learned a great deal from Marxism" he once remarked, "as I do not hesitate to admit". He was proud of a knowledge of Marxist texts acquired in his student days before the First World War and later in a Bavarian prison, in 1924, after the failure of the Munich putsch. The trouble with Weimar Republic politicians, he told Otto Wagener at much the same time, was that "they had never even read Marx", implying that no one who had failed to read so important an author could even begin to understand the modern world; in consequence, he went on, they imagined that the October revolution in 1917 had been "a private Russian affair", whereas in fact it had changed the whole course of human history! His differences with the communists, he explained, were less ideological than tactical. German communists he had known before he took power, he told Rauschning, thought politics meant talking and writing. They were mere pamphleteers, whereas "I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun", adding revealingly that "the whole of National Socialism" was based on Marx.

Now that the age of individualism had ended, he [Hitler] told Wagener, the task was to "find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution". Marx and Lenin had seen the right goal, but chosen the wrong route - a long and needlessly painful route - and, in destroying the bourgeois and the kulak, Lenin had turned Russia into a grey mass of undifferentiated humanity, a vast anonymous horde of the dispossessed; they had "averaged downwards"; whereas the National Socialist state would raise living standards higher than capitalism had ever known. It is plain that Hitler and his associates meant their claim to socialism to be taken seriously; they took it seriously themselves.

Hitler's mind, it has often been noticed, was in many ways backward-looking: not medievalising, on the whole, like Victorian socialists such as Ruskin and William Morris, but fascinated by a far remoter past of heroic virtue. It is now widely forgotten that much the same could be said of Marx and Engels.

These are highly socialist sentiments, and if Wagener reports his master faithfully they leave no doubt about the conclusion: that Hitler was an unorthodox Marxist who knew his sources and knew just how unorthodox the way in which he handled them was. He was a dissident socialist. His programme was at once nostalgic and radical. It proposed to accomplish something that Christians had failed to act on and that communists before him had attempted and bungled. "What Marxism, Leninism and Stalinism failed to accomplish," he told Wagener, "we shall be in a position to achieve."

Er det da riktig å kalle nazismen for marxist-hitlerismen (ref. marxist-leninismen og marxist-stalinismen)?

Videre:
Without race, he went on, National Socialism "would really do nothing more than compete with Marxism on its own ground". Marxism was internationalist. The proletariat, as the famous slogan goes, has no fatherland. Hitler had a fatherland, and it was everything to him.

Kan Hitler ha tatt feil, for marxismen er også rasistisk, og lenger nede i artikkelen står det:
The proletariat may have no fatherland, as Lenin said. But there were still, in Marx's view, races that would have to be exterminated. That is a view he published in January-February 1849 in an article by Engels called "The Hungarian Struggle" in Marx's journal the Neue Rheinische Zeitung, and the point was recalled by socialists down to the rise of Hitler. It is now becoming possible to believe that Auschwitz was socialist-inspired. The Marxist theory of history required and demanded genocide for reasons implicit in its claim that feudalism was already giving place to capitalism, which must in its turn be superseded by socialism. Entire races would be left behind after a workers' revolution, feudal remnants in a socialist age; and since they could not advance two steps at a time, they would have to be killed. They were racial trash, as Engels called them, and fit only for the dung-heap of history.

Ett av folkene som skulle utryddes, var slaverne.
– Engels avslutter en annen artikkel med å skrive at "vi vet hva vi har å gjøre: Uunngåelig kamp mot den revolusjonsforræderske slaviskheten; utryddelseskamp (Vernichtungskampf) og hensynsløs terrorisme, ikke av hensyn til Tyskland, men av hensyn til revolusjonen!" "Vernichtung" er jo et uhyggelig begrep vi kjenner best gjennom nazismens holocaust mot jødene ...
http://tomcat-pm.intermedium.com/pdf/VG/2010/08/26/VG.2010-08-26.1-1-1-1.1-1-1-1.40-41.pdf

Ifølge Engels var Europa fullt av såkalt folkeavfall. Eksempler er baskere, keltere og bretonere. Som slaverne var disse uforbederlig kontrarevolusjonære og burde forsvinne.
http://tomcat-pm.intermedium.com/pdf/VG/2010/08/26/VG.2010-08-26.1-1-1-1.1-1-1-1.40-41.pdf

Marx & Friends in Their Own Words: http://marxwords.blogspot.com/

HITLERITE RIOT IN BERLIN
Beer Glasses Fly When Speaker Compares Hitler and Lenin
New York Times, November 28, 1925, p.4.

BERLIN. Nov. 27. – The National Socialist-Labor Party, of which Adolf Hitler is a patron and father, persists in believing Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted in a party meeting. Two weeks ago an attempted discussion of this subject led to one death, sixty injuries and $5,000 damages to beer glasses, tables, chairs, windows and chandeliers in Chemnitz. Last night, Dr. Göbells tried the experiment in Berlin and only police intervention prevented a repetition of the Chemnitz affair.

On the speaker’s assertion that Lenin was the greatest man, second only to Hitler, and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight, a faction war opened with whizzing beer glasses. When this sort of ammunition was exhausted a free fight in which fists and knives played important roles was indulged in. Later a gang marched to the offices of the socialist paper Vorwärts and smashed plate-glass windows. Police made nineteen arrests.
http://hurryupharry.org/2011/05/25/from-the-vaults-new-york-times-1925/


Goebbels tilhørte tidlig den radikale fløyen av nazipartiet.

- Goebbels hadde stor forståelse for kommunismens tanker og samarbeidet endog med Walter Ulbricht under transportarbeiderstreiken i 32. Ulbricht ble jo siden den ubestridte sterke mann i Øst-Tyskland...

- Dette står det ingenting om i DDRs historiebøker, ler Wolke.

Så sent som i 44 skrev Goebbels i dagboken: «Stalin er en mann vi kan forhandle med - ikke Churchill».
http://www.vg.no/rampelys/artikkel.php?artid=10016329


The Soviet Story (Docu) - Full Movie / English: http://www.livingscoop.com/watch.php?v=MjQwMQ==
Ultima_Thule
 
Innlegg: 167
Registrert: 16 Jan 2010, 09:15

Re: Rød og sort fascisme

Innlegg Vegard Martinsen 08 Des 2013, 13:05

Er det da riktig å kalle nazismen for marxist-hitlerismen (ref. marxist-leninismen og marxist-stalinismen)?


Det er veldig vanskelig å få oppslutning om ny språkbruk.
Vegard Martinsen
 
Innlegg: 7867
Registrert: 07 Sep 2003, 12:07

Re: Rød og sort fascisme

Innlegg Ultima_Thule 08 Des 2013, 20:37

Erik skrev:Dette har objektivister/liberalister alltid visst:

"Det er så store likheter mellom kommunisme og nazisme at det ikke er lett å se forskjell. Det er en oppfatning som hisser opp russiske ledere, men nå erklærer lederen av de russiske statsarkivene seg enig."

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/utenriks/--Sta ... 48961.html

I dokumentarfilmen "The Soviet Story" som jeg har lenket til over, kommer det frem at Tyskland hadde en base på Kola i Nordvest-Russland før 9. april 1940. Mer om dette:
Stalin hjälpte Hitler att invadera Norge

http://www.krigsmyter.nu/km3norgestalin.pdf
Ultima_Thule
 
Innlegg: 167
Registrert: 16 Jan 2010, 09:15

Re: Rød og sort fascisme

Innlegg Ultima_Thule 08 Des 2013, 20:40

Vegard Martinsen skrev:
Er det da riktig å kalle nazismen for marxist-hitlerismen (ref. marxist-leninismen og marxist-stalinismen)?


Det er veldig vanskelig å få oppslutning om ny språkbruk.

Jeg er klar over det, men har jeg godt belegg for å kalle nazismen marxist-hitlerismen?
Ultima_Thule
 
Innlegg: 167
Registrert: 16 Jan 2010, 09:15

Re: Rød og sort fascisme

Innlegg Ultima_Thule 08 Des 2013, 20:59

Glenn Beck - The Revolutionary Holocaust - Live Free ... or Die:
Ultima_Thule
 
Innlegg: 167
Registrert: 16 Jan 2010, 09:15


Gå til Andre ideologier

Hvem er i forumet

Brukere som leser i dette forumet: Ingen registrerte brukere og 1 gjest